More Alike Than Perhaps We Thought.
Jan. 3rd, 2011 12:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
catsittingstillRecently Smallship One has come to a realization--insisting that every evidence-free claim be treated equally (and thank you to pockenaomi for pointing it out) means that:
all anyone has to do to shut me up is to claim to perceive something offensive in what I've said
Exactly the problem that atheists would have if we tried to live up to the standard some folks want to hold us to.
Except, of course, that all an atheist has to do to be perceived as offensive is play Jingle Bells in a Christmas Parade. Or wear a T-shirt with an American flag and the word "atheist" on it.
Or, admittedly, compare two evidence-free ideas to each other. I'm not saying I've never done anything I had reason to believe might offend some people, though I didn't do it for the purpose of causing offense.
(I went over the rest of why exactly I believe the post in question was offensive and I won't rehash it here, except to say that I am setting aside the matter of whether the claim of offensiveness is evidence-free for the moment, and assuming, for the sake of discussion, that it is.)
The problem of treating all evidence free claims with equal respect is this: I am doing exactly the same thing.
The difference is that you say "I respect all evidence-free claims equally" and I say "I disrespect all evidence-free claims equally." But we are both putting 'Jesus died for my sins" and "I found Hrahk'Na the Parsec Squid* in a cherry blossom" on the same level. And while I agree that my treatment of Hrahk'Na is disrespectful, I don't think yours is any better, because I don't think zie would care for being compared to Jesus. Or the other way around if that's what floats your boat.
Respect is only worth something if more worthy ideas get more respect.
Okay, I do understand that you (I think) only put evidence-free claims that people feel really strongly about on the same level: "Jesus died for my sins" and "my dog is the best dog ever" for example, and I don't have anyone who feels really strongly about Hrahk'Na the Parsec Squid to offer (yet)--but I bet I can find people who feel really strongly about the Flying Spaghetti Monster.**
I do think one thing that might be helpful in this dilemma is to recognize there is a difference between a claim about feelings like "I love you" or "I'm offended" and a claim someone feels very strongly about, like "My dog is the best dog ever, and she would never bite your horrid child!" Questioning one is obviously kind of insulting because it's a claim the speaker is lying. Questioning the other is perfectly reasonable, no matter how strongly the speaker feels.
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*Leaving aside the obvious issue that a Parsec Squid is much, much too big to fit into a cherry blossom; obviously it was a vision or an avatar or something. Plus of course "Hrahk'Na" is a verbal tag that substitutes for a rapidly fluctuating magnetic field humans can't reproduce or even perceive without special equipment.
** Who in my opinion bears a resemblance to a Parsec Squid--that "noodly appendage" stuff?--though there are many Parsec Squids the one I met) and I'm unclear on the numericity of the FSM.
all anyone has to do to shut me up is to claim to perceive something offensive in what I've said
Exactly the problem that atheists would have if we tried to live up to the standard some folks want to hold us to.
Except, of course, that all an atheist has to do to be perceived as offensive is play Jingle Bells in a Christmas Parade. Or wear a T-shirt with an American flag and the word "atheist" on it.
Or, admittedly, compare two evidence-free ideas to each other. I'm not saying I've never done anything I had reason to believe might offend some people, though I didn't do it for the purpose of causing offense.
(I went over the rest of why exactly I believe the post in question was offensive and I won't rehash it here, except to say that I am setting aside the matter of whether the claim of offensiveness is evidence-free for the moment, and assuming, for the sake of discussion, that it is.)
The problem of treating all evidence free claims with equal respect is this: I am doing exactly the same thing.
The difference is that you say "I respect all evidence-free claims equally" and I say "I disrespect all evidence-free claims equally." But we are both putting 'Jesus died for my sins" and "I found Hrahk'Na the Parsec Squid* in a cherry blossom" on the same level. And while I agree that my treatment of Hrahk'Na is disrespectful, I don't think yours is any better, because I don't think zie would care for being compared to Jesus. Or the other way around if that's what floats your boat.
Respect is only worth something if more worthy ideas get more respect.
Okay, I do understand that you (I think) only put evidence-free claims that people feel really strongly about on the same level: "Jesus died for my sins" and "my dog is the best dog ever" for example, and I don't have anyone who feels really strongly about Hrahk'Na the Parsec Squid to offer (yet)--but I bet I can find people who feel really strongly about the Flying Spaghetti Monster.**
I do think one thing that might be helpful in this dilemma is to recognize there is a difference between a claim about feelings like "I love you" or "I'm offended" and a claim someone feels very strongly about, like "My dog is the best dog ever, and she would never bite your horrid child!" Questioning one is obviously kind of insulting because it's a claim the speaker is lying. Questioning the other is perfectly reasonable, no matter how strongly the speaker feels.
-------------------------------------------------------------
*Leaving aside the obvious issue that a Parsec Squid is much, much too big to fit into a cherry blossom; obviously it was a vision or an avatar or something. Plus of course "Hrahk'Na" is a verbal tag that substitutes for a rapidly fluctuating magnetic field humans can't reproduce or even perceive without special equipment.
** Who in my opinion bears a resemblance to a Parsec Squid--that "noodly appendage" stuff?--though there are many Parsec Squids the one I met) and I'm unclear on the numericity of the FSM.
