Mafia Morality

[catsittingstill]

So those of you who read here a lot have probably noticed that I link things from P.Z. Myers sometimes, because I enjoy his blog.  Sometimes he posts examples of e-mails people have sent him, which he thinks are funny, or which he thinks it would be good to respond to publicly, or both.

I was reading one such recent post, and came across this: "Indeed, your claim that morality comes from our culture needs to answer the question, "What if my culture is the Mafia?""

What if your culture was the Mafia?  As I understand it (bearing in mind that I don't actually know much about Mafia culture), your morality would be mostly based on 1) loyalty to a group 2) submission to authority and 3) the enforcement of purity, especially on women.  Add into that your Mafioso comfort with violence, and you'd have basically conservative morality.  The difference between you and non-Mafia conservatives would be what group you are loyal to and what authority you enforce submission to. 

None of it would require any "implantation by God" (though plenty of it can be observed in the bible) and it would tend to set you at odds, as you are presently at odds, with liberals, whose morality is mostly based on 1) reduce harm and 2) treat others fairly, plus the relatively new idea that violence has an intrinsic moral dimension rather than being a neutral tool in the social toolbox for getting what you want.

All of these principles with the possible exception of the enforcement of purity, are frequently seen in animals, especially animals that are closely related to humans, and may reasonably be supposed to arise from something common to all species that exhibit them (hint--which is probably not a soul--at least, not a soul as you understand the term.) 

Comments

[bigbumble.livejournal.com]

This makes me think of Huckleberry Finn's dilemma over his moral obligation to return someones private property, Jim the slave.

Oh, and glad to see you are using your new user-pic!

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I really like that user-pic; Debbie Ohi took the picture. I don't use it much because, well, some things I post about aren't funny, and if I used that one as the default it might end up inappropriately placed. So I'm more fond of it than its frequency-of-use might suggest.

I remember Huck's dilemma vividly and the point at which he decided he'd just go ahead and do wrong, and go to hell if that was what it cost to treat Jim right. I'd already thought Huck was pretty okay, but that was the point I found most admirable.

[celticdragonfly.livejournal.com]

Heh, very interesting.

I think one of the ongoing problems in getting people from different sides of the liberal/conservative split to get along better is a lack of understanding that "harm" is perceived so very differently by different people. Frustrating.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure where to go with this. You think conservative's objections to reducing harm come from the fact that they see something else has harm and conditions as they are as not-harm?

[celticdragonfly.livejournal.com]

Yes. It's very frustrating.

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

Seconding bigbumble on the pic!

(Other stuff too but I'm too tired to think about serious things now. Which is why that pic really caught my eye and cheered me up.)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

:-) Thanks. Glad to cheer you up.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

Most Mafiosi are devoutly Catholic. Didn't you know?

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I associate them with Catholicism, yes, but don't know enough about them to be sure.

[amycat1959.livejournal.com]

There was a very funny ep. of a new show ("White Collar") in which the local mafia boss demands help from the FBI "good guys" (who're investigating him, complete with bugs & surveillance van) because someone's stolen the valuable Renaissance-era illuminated-manuscript Bible from his church. I cracked up when Mafia-Boss whined to FBI Guys: "I just want my Goddamned Bible back!"...

It's a very selective morality: "connected" Mafiosi might commit all sorts of crimes and sins, but still go to Mass every Sunday, send their kids to St. Whozits Parochial School, and tithe generously. And yes, the guys may well be keeping mistresses (or high-class prostitutes), but God forbid their wives & daughters be anything but chaste until marriage and 100% faithful after!

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

. And yes, the guys may well be keeping mistresses (or high-class prostitutes), but God forbid their wives & daughters be anything but chaste until marriage and 100% faithful after!

Exactly. The conservative moral value of enforcement of purity is almost always used to oppress women.

I think the case can even be made for "food purity" rules like those of Kosher, as the burden of the extra work (more meticulous food prep, keeping and washing two sets of dishes, etc) falls mainly on women.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure. I grew up in one of the US centers of the Mafia, and this is what I learned there, but I don't have citations to hand, and I'd have to do research to find them. Quick on-line research seems to be hopeless--many anti-Roman Catholic bigots proclaim at weary length that the RC church itself is nothing but organized crime.

If god inspired morality in men (somehow, it is always men we hear about), surely there would be more agreement on it? As if that were not enough, were that so, the most openly pious would be the most truly pious. Yet it is not so, and it has not been so for a very long time; Jesus preached against pious hypocrites and advised his followers to pray in private. As usual, the most vehement Christians seem not to have read their own holy book, or at least have read it through binders.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Those who pray on the street corner receive their reward on the street corner, but when you pray, go into your closet and shut the door and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Sometimes I wonder why I, who am not religious, can remember that quote, while so many religious people can't.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

And on that day, he settled all the family business.