Regarding the Muslim Community Center and 9/11

[catsittingstill]

Freedom of Religion is not just Freedom of Christianity.

Good grief; has the whole nation gone mad?  Here are a bunch of moderate, modern, Manhattan Muslims, trying to build the equivalent of the YMCA (only Muslim), and Conservative Hate Radio is freaking out because they have a chapel, well okay, what did we expect?  But why would half the Democrats join them?  This isn't some kind of issue on which moderates can disagree, this is one of the core, founding, principles of the country.

Why does it take an atheist to say "Hey guys--leave the Muslims alone!"

And for the people who had relatives murdered on 9/11--they suffered a tragedy nine years ago.  9/11 was a terrible thing and no one is saying differently.  We're all very sorry and we'd undo it if we could.  But we don't owe them the right to run the lives of the rest of the world, or even the rest of the people in Manhattan, forever. 

Plus, you have noticed that a major claim of Al Qaeda and other Muslim extremists is that the US is the enemy of Islam and that anyone who wants to be a Muslim has to fight the US, right?  So, playing right into their hands much, are we?  Um, why?

Enough already!

Comments

[joecoustic.livejournal.com]

First of all I agree with everything you're saying.

Second, have you seen this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html?th&emc=th

I read it this morning and found it really interesting (not that it takes away any of the frustration with the stupidity of the situation, though). It's by Frank Rich and pretty much agrees with what you're saying.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I thought this was a good piece; thanks for linking it.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Once again, the most hard-hitting condemnation of the bigots comes not from editorial journalists, but from comedians.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade

[danceswithlife]

OMG that was awesome.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Second the awesome.

[maiac.livejournal.com]

"And for the people who had relatives murdered on 9/11" ...many of the people who died in the World Trade Center were Muslims themselves, and their survivors certainly have the right to an opinion on whether their own honored dead are being disrespected by the uproar.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

very good point

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

Yes.

(This inspired me to make a new icon.)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I like it! Except the light green is hard to see where it overlays white.

Rules of thumb I learned long ago for SCA heraldry work well, in my experience, for icons, since icons also need to be clearly visible when small. In this case (though the Heralds would throw things at me) I would suggest making the peace symbol white outlined with black, and then making the "Fiat Pax" black or a strong (dark) color like red, green (emerald or forest green), blue or purple.

Or you could make the "Fiat Pax" black, and put it under the peace symbol, or wrap it around the peace symbol, so that it shows up against the white background.

[celticdragonfly.livejournal.com]

I haven't been keeping up on this really. But I think the issue for a lot of people is that the Muslims have a long tradition of plopping a mosque on top of any important enemy site they have conquered - like the one on the rock in Jerusalem.

I think for many people, having this mosque go up on that site is letting the Muslims declare to their world that they have conquered us.

I do not *know* whether or not that is actually their intention. However, I can certainly see why this sort of historical precedent would make people very hostile about it.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I had not heard of this tradition before. Which seems odd in context, since, if for many people this is the issue, I would have expected them to bring it up while they're expressing their opposition.

And at any rate, it's obviously not what's happening here. 1) it's not the sort of thing liberals working at community outreach (both to their more conservative co-religionists and to their fellow Americans who are not Muslim (and there is obviously a crying need for community outreach in that direction in particular)) would ever contemplate and 2) conquer New York City? C'mon, get real.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

An atheist.... and a couple of Jews. batyatoon and Michael Bloomberg. But y'see, the right-winger press framed this thing "OMG GROUND ZERO MOSQUE" when it's NEITHER... Olbermann got it right... Stewart got it right... I *suspect* Maddow did but I haven't seen what she's got to say about it... but it took re-framing, and the mainstreamers either went with Faux Snooze or took flak about it when they didn't....

This is one of those wedges the ... let's call a spade a spade... fascists drive in when they get the chance, dividing up people and wedging off the scapegoats... gotta keep the people scared and such like, or you'll never get them to give up rights, fork over excess taxes, etc....

Batya was right, this deserves the F-bomb. Motherfuckers. They don't want peace, they want power. I'll give'em peace and power. A peace of my boot in their butts... and their choice of how they want out of this world they hate so much.

Build Park 51. And the gay bar next door.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I did notice in passing that a handful of conservatives appeared to be proposing to build a gay bar next door on the theory that it would drive the Muslims out.

It appears to me that they overlooked a couple of important points.

1) These are Manhattan Muslims. Like most large, vibrant, (liberal) cities, NYC has a noticeable population of gay people. Something about being able to live somewhere they're less likely to be beaten up, I guess. If the Muslims in question were allergic to gays, NYC probably wouldn't be their first choice.

2) There are already three or four gay bars in the area. Run by people who aren't just catering to gays to spite another group they hate even more. That's going to be hard to compete with.

But yeah, there are religious people on our side too--and I should probably not have phrased it as though I was the only voice in the wilderness.

"Let Park 51 replace the old Burlington Coat Factory!" Is just not as catchy a slogan as I would like. But it's truthful; it has that much going for it.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

If the Muslims in question were allergic to gays, NYC probably wouldn't be their first choice.

*frowns* It occurs to me that the same kinds of cities, in this country at least, that are allergic to gays tend to *also* be allergic to Muslims...

Although in, say, Atlanta, you could probably choose your neighborhood such that Muslims would get a pass but they would be less likely to build a gay bar... *probably*... but you're totally right, NYC isn't such a place.

That's very odd, that *conservatives* are proposing to build a *gay bar*... if *they* were the ones actually building and/or providing financing or impetus? I sure as heck wouldn't be about patronizing such an establishment.... But then again, you're more than likely correct, the average *New Yorker* (Muslim or not) is less likely to get his knickers in a twist about having a gay bar next door...

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

oh, and the truth is rarely catchy or otherwise good marketing. More's the pity.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

"Let Park 51 replace the old Burlington Coat Factory!" Is just not as catchy a slogan as I would like.

Will these do any better?

Build community. Build a community center.

Ten years of nothing is ten years too many.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Yes, those are better :-)

[antinomic.livejournal.com]

I work for the navy as a consultant. I have yet to meet someone on base who is opposed to the mosque. Our oath is to the constitution, and freedom of religion is in the bill of rights. Also, we athiests are also free to not practice.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear this.

I'm hoping opposition to the mosque is being blown out of proportion--at least in terms of the percent of the population that is opposed.