Associations

[catsittingstill]

In view of the McCain campaign's desperate attempts to change the subject from the economy and foreign policy by dragging out Barak Obama's past association with Bill Ayers (they served on a board of directors of a charity foundation together, and Ayers once hosted a party for Obama, when Obama was first running for the state senate of Illinois), I've been thinking about my own associations.

As it happens, I am presently serving on two boards of directors myself.  And I have just realized that I don't know the first thing about the backgrounds of the people I serve with.  I haven't hired a private detective to check them out (nor will I; it would be incredibly rude, and besides what normal person can afford that kind of thing?). 

Take Mossy Creek Network.  There's S, sweetly granola, simultaneously outgoing and shy, with roots that go back for generations in this area; J, proud owner and restorer of a historical farm; C, who has installed a windmill on his property to generate electricity.  I admire these people for what they are now, but I couldn't tell you they were never members of the Weather Underground (except C, who is probably my age or younger, and was therefore either a child (like Obama, come to think of it) or not born yet at the time.)

Take the League of Women Voters. There's A, on the city council of the local city, J (different J), who organized our recent Candidates' Forum (and our upcoming one too), B, who means well but tends to be overcommitted.  I can't prove that any of these people were never socialists, or communists.  It seems unlikely, given the local political climate, but I haven't investigated them, and I'm not going to.

And John McCain can go soak his head. 

While he's holding his face in the nice, cool water, he might ask himself if he's entirely comfortable with the hatred he's whipping up against members of the media and people of color.  He might ask himself if the crowds shouting "Kill him" and "He's a terrorist!" and "Sit down, 'boy'!" are really showing the Republican Party to best advantage.  He might ask himself what kind of legacy he wants to be associated with.

Just sayin'.

Comments

[stevemb.livejournal.com]

A former McCain supporter expresses his disgust:

McCain's Attacks Fuel Dangerous Hatred

John McCain: If your campaign does not stop equating Sen. Barack Obama with terrorism, questioning his patriotism and portraying Mr. Obama as "not one of us," I accuse you of deliberately feeding the most unhinged elements of our society the red meat of hate, and therefore of potentially instigating violence.

At a Sarah Palin rally, someone called out, "Kill him!" At one of your rallies, someone called out, "Terrorist!" Neither was answered or denounced by you or your running mate, as the crowd laughed and cheered. At your campaign event Wednesday in Bethlehem, Pa., the crowd was seething with hatred for the Democratic nominee - an attitude encouraged in speeches there by you, your running mate, your wife and the local Republican chairman.

Shame!

John McCain: In 2000, as a lifelong Republican, I worked to get you elected instead of George W. Bush. In return, you wrote an endorsement of one of my books about military service. You seemed to be a man who put principle ahead of mere political gain.

You have changed....

...Change the atmosphere of your campaign. Talk about the issues at hand. Make your case. But stop stirring up the lunatic fringe of haters, or risk suffering the judgment of history and the loathing of the American people - forever.

We will hold you responsible.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Yes, I saw that. :-( Once upon a time I thought well of John McCain too. I wish I could do that now.

[ailsaek.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me too. I really liked him when he was running against Bush. I even switched over to Republican so I could vote for him in the primary. I feel besmirched now.

[howeird]

Would you serve on a board with OJ Simpson?

Same difference. For people of my generation (I was an activist in college while Ayres was blowing things up) it doesn't take a private investigator to know he would have spent life in prison for murder except for the case being thrown out because of illegal wiretapping.

I also serve on some charitable and non-profit boards, and also would never hire a PI to check out the individuals I serve with. But I do perform a web search whenever a new person joins, just on the theory that I ought to know a little bit about the people I'm serving with, and I mean that in a positive way.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I voted for him in the primary this year, actually. I thought he was the best of a bad lot. I still think so... I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

If I'd been eight years old when OJ Simpson was suspected of murdering his ex-wife on the other side of the country, I might. As it is, I was an adult for his trial so it's not a good comparison.

I just had a quick look at the year I was eight from Wikipedia. The only things in there that even ring a bell are Nixon going to China, Watergate, and the E.R.A. And I suspect I remember them all because they got mentioned a lot for a while.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Oops. That was me.

[janeg.livejournal.com]

Most people who recruit others to their nonprofit boards don't do any kind of background check. They should - fraud is not a nice background for that ever-so-helpful new volunteer who is willing to be Treasurer. And charities that put their other volunteers through police checks should do the same for the ones making the decisions at the top. But I do not think every member of a nonprofit board should be expected to do such checks independently. Shame on McCain. And I wonder if everyone who ever fundraised for him is without sin?

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's a good comparison there.

Ayres was almost twenty-five when he founded the Weather Underground. Now, I don't know what you were like when you were twenty-five. You might have been exactly like you are now, minus the physical mileage. But when I look back at the me of twelve years ago, when I was twenty-five, I know I had a few lessons to learn. Actually, no - the person I am right now has a few lessons to learn. The me of twelve years ago had a lot of lessons to learn.

It's been almost thirty years since Bill Ayres came out of hiding, and over forty years since he last set off a bomb. If I'm not allowed to offer him provisional forgiveness on that record, when am I allowed to forgive somebody? When am I allowed to let somebody's past go, and consider his more recent actions as the standard to measure him against?

And when does a person's past leach out to the point that it only taints him, and not the people who touch him?

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

The difference is that Bill Ayers was kind of famous. It would be more as if you were serving on a board with David Duke.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

As I told Howeird, I checked out the Wikipedia entry for the year I was eight (and nine for a few weeks). The only person I remember from there is Nixon. I guess kids can be self-centered, but I for one am not going to hold Obama to a standard of memory that I can't meet.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I suppose it would be a good idea to check out the person who's going to be holding the money. I don't worry about it with the LWV because most of the members have known each other for decades. And Mossy Creek... well I think we have about 300$ right now, which we just raised to buy recycling bins. I suppose the treasurer could run off with it, but it hardly seems worth the resulting loss of reputation. :-)

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

No, I mean that he's famous both locally and historically. The chance that Obama didn't find out Ayers' past, if not before meeting him, then within a week or two of knowing him, is infinitesmal. And he was Ayers' political protege and ally for years.

His wife was arguably at least as bad, if not worse, infamously for her comment regarding the murder of Sharon Tate, which begins with "Groovy!" and passes on into lip-smacking glee at the thought of the double murder of a pregnant woman and her fetus with a fondue fork.

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

I should say "is" arguably at least as bad, if not worse, because Bernardine Dohrn is still Bill Ayers' wife, and host at his house. It's unlikely that she serves human flesh, however.

[mdlbear]

Every now and then my former home state does something right.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

All the news services have checked this out, and the verdict has been that Obama knew Ayers, but not very well. That doesn't sound to me like "protege and ally for years."

This is your second comment.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

This is your third comment.

There is a report that Bernardine Dohrn referred to the murder of Sharon Tate. There is no report that she ever served human flesh.

Let's try to keep perspective on this.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I am happy that you are happy, but suspect you might be referring to something other than this post, which is about how well we know people we are on boards with.

[mdlbear]

Weird -- yes; it was intended to refer to the Connecticut Supreme Court's decision on Gay Marriage. Clicked on the wrong tab, I expect.

[mdlbear]

Or more likely scrolled a little too far -- the two posts are adjacent on my friends page.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

Except that Ayers was never charged with murder. Kinda not the same difference.

And here we have the prosecutor himself on the matter

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

"As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child." NYT letter. Can we put this to bed now, please?

[howeird]

Ayers was charged with murder, but the charges were dropped when it was revealed that illegal wiretapping was used to gather evidence. OJ was charged with murder and was aquitted.

[gorgeousgary]

And don't forget the associations we all have right here in filkdom! 8-)

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

Are you sure? The NYT lists only "inciting to riot and conspiracy to bomb government buildings" *. Though Ayers was a bomber, he seems never to have actually attacked people.

[howeird]

At 25 I was a US Peace Corps volunteer serving my country overseas, without blowing up anything or killing anyone. At 25, John McCain was blowing people up for the US Navy, if I have the timeline right. When Ayres was blowing things up, I was the wire editor of a campus radio station a bunch of us had taken over from the University, and was marching with 10,000 other people in anti-war protests. Again, not blowing anything up or killing anyone. I did get tear gassed once...

[howeird]

Yes, you're right. He was never charged with murder.

Though Ayers was a bomber, he seems never to have actually attacked people.
Bombs sometimes go off when you don't want them to. That's how Ayres lost his first Weather Underground girlfriend.

[howeird]

OMG. I've been at the same filk with Leslie "It's Grandma's Turn To Throw The Bomb" Fish. Several times. I've been at her smoke-filled room parties. I will never be able to run for public office ever.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

And his close friend Terry Robbins. Researching further, I find that, Ayers has said they actually worked very hard not to injure people after that accident--sabotage rather than terrorism--, and this seems to be true. The ideology of Weatherman didn't make sense to me at the time. Near 40 years later, more politically thoughtful, it still doesn't. The Weatherman's members were educated, politically aware. Yet they didn't have a strategy, and they knew the history that makes clear that their non-strategy would fail. Ayers, still very much on the left, is now a peaceful academic. He has always been strongly opposed to racism, and it is completely in character for him to support a rising young black politician. I don't think Obama can reasonably be held to blame for Ayers's history or politics.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

My point was not so much what you were doing as what kind of person you were then, compared to the person that you are now.

In any case, I'm still waiting for your answer to the rest of my comment.

[howeird]

I don't have a good answer for the rest of your question. Had it not been for Carter's amnesty program, and a shift in Supreme Court decisions regarding police wiretapping, Ayres would be getting out on parole right around now. Under normal circumstances society would not have forgiven him, and he would never have been in a position of responsibility. But he was given amnesty, and his case was dismissed, and he did land some peachy positions on charitable boards. I just don't know how I would react if I was invited to sit on a board with him.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

It is interesting to note what Randwolf has to say about Ayers and the Weather Underground higher up this thread.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

No problem :-)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Hadn't thought of that. You're right. I've been in a room with Leslie too.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Thank you for injecting this information into the conversation.

Re: And here we have the prosecutor himself on the matter

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Wow. Thanks for your effort in researching this.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

For myself, I think that if Ayers (correcting my spelling) was on a board that had influence on a subject that was important to me, I could work with him as he is now. If it was less critical, I might have second thoughts. I might still work with him.

And, more relevant to the original point, I would not feel that somebody who chose to work with him was endorsing Mr. Ayers's past. He's spent over twenty-five years building a life in the open without blowing things up, and he hasn't blown up anything in over thirty-five years (correcting my math). I think that's enough distance that if somebody chooses to work with him, there's no cause to cry, "terrorist sympathizer!"

I can't judge somebody on the worlds of if. If Ayers was just getting out on parole, would I treat him differently? Sure. But that's not what I'm dealing with, any more than I'm judging Bill Clinton on the alternate universe where he kept it in his pants, or George W. Bush on the alternate universe where we found a massive stockpile of WMDs in Iraq.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

It's likely that Leslie Fish knew Ayers; they were both in Chicago in that period. Look at this essay. She may even have been at the disastrous meeting when the SDS split into three Stalinist factions, one of which was the Weatherman. I wonder if anyone's interviewed Fish on her activist history--bet she has lots of good stories to tell.

You're very welcome

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

It's fascinating though, all things considered, I would much rather not be looking into it at all.