For what it's worth

[catsittingstill]

I'm willing to take it on faith that "Kill him!" at Palin's Clearwater FL rally actually meant "Kill Ayers!" rather than "Kill Obama!" 

The problem is that whipping up homicidal hatred is not okay.  Even if the victim is not a presidential candidate.  Maybe somebody should take Palin aside and mention that, in a mentoring sort of way.

 I'm willing to accept that this is just some weirdo with no sewing experience, and this was just some crazy hankering for the good old days.  McCain's and Palin's attacks on Obama are coincidental, and not related to these whack-jobs.

And in the meantime, there are the results of the investigation of Palin's conduct in office; she abused her political position to pursue a personal vendetta.  And she's claiming the report says the exact opposite of what it says!

I don't know which bothers me more--the report, or her response.  If she's really that out of touch with the real world it's astonishing she can get enough traction to walk.  If not, she's lying.  Again.  On the assumption that we're either too stupid to notice or too morally dead to care..

Comments

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

The problem is that whipping up homicidal hatred is not okay. Even if the victim is not a presidential candidate. Maybe somebody should take Palin aside and mention that, in a mentoring sort of way.

So, in your opinion it's a blot on Palin's record that some persons attending her rally wanted to kill Ayers, but it's not a blot on Obama's record that he joined Ayers as a major political ally, when Ayers had actually TRIED to kill people?

That's an interesting double standard.

[ericcoleman]

He was on the board of an organization founded by a deeply conservative republican, and on that board was this very well respected college professor. Yeah, bad company that.

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

He was on the board of an organization founded by a deeply conservative republican, and on that board was this very well respected college professor. Yeah, bad company that.

So, because Ayers has become a "very well respected college professor," that magically erases the fact that he tried to kill people? And makes associating with him as a close political ally better than merely having some people at your rally cry "kill him!"

What, btw, does the conservativeness or political affiliation of the guy who founded the organization have to do with this issue?

[ericcoleman]

Well, apparently this right wing republican McCain supporter had no problems with Ayers being on the board of his foundation. What does that say about the man 20+ years after his inarguably despicable actions?

When Obama met Ayers he was a well respected college professor who was on the board of this charitable foundation. Which is why he associated with him. Can you say for certain that Obama even knew about Ayers actions 20+ years before, when Obama was 8?

It's a nice little straw man that folks like you are desperately trying to raise here, but it really has nothing to do with anything.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Dealt with the tried to kill people thing.

He was never a close political ally, as the news organizations keep pointing out. They knew each other slightly, he held a house party for Obama when Obama was running for State Senator (and like most candidates to state legislature, took an opportunity to meet voters wherever he could find it) and they served on a couple of boards together.

If the conservative republican who founded the organization had no problem with Ayers, why the hell should Obama? Speaking of double standards.

[ericcoleman]

I think we need to go protest Walter Annenberg ...

Actually, it gets better

[wick-deer.livejournal.com]

"Other Board Members included the publisher of the Chicago Tribune, the President of the Field Museum and the President of the University of Illinois." http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/10/ayers-obama-and-the-chicago-an.php

Obviously, this is a radical organization -- NOT.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

He hosted a house party. Oh, wow, what huge evidence of "close association"!

I think of the more-than-several political organizations who send me e-mail who have asked me (and everyone else on their mailing list) to host a house party, to view debates or make phone calls or ask for donations. They haven't met me, they haven't seen my house, they know little more than my basic contact information. They don't know my religion, they don't know the organizations I've been affiliated with, they don't know my job description--but if I said "yes" they'd advertise my house party for me!

Likewise "he was on the same board of directors of a charitable organization".

Hey, folks, if we can't get together with people of differing political views to support CHARITY, and have that recognized as upright, honorable behavior, there's something very wrong with our country.

[msminlr.livejournal.com]

I am SO SICK AND TIRED of hearing folks not allowing that someone JUST MIGHT HAVE LEARNED BETTER IN THE PAST FORTY YEARS!!!

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

and yet Palin lied about the TrooperGate report this past weekend: Oh how naughty and impulsive she was in her youth!

Who has the double standard again?

[msminlr.livejournal.com]

I'm not talking about last week.
I'm talking about things done while under the influence of youth.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I think you may have missed the sarcasm horns (that's what my husband calls the often-invisible-to-me-social-signals that accompany sarcasm). In this case, I'm pretty sure Admnaismith is agreeing with you by being sarcastic about Palin.

[msminlr.livejournal.com]

I was unaware of that.

But my comment still stands, as a general observation on the non-distinction between "learning better" and "flip-flopping".

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

(sorry deleted Jordan's comment that you were responding to--he only gets 3 comments per post on my blog, and that was his fourth. I apologize for the inconvenience; if you feel strongly about it, you can invite him to your blog to discuss it, or invite him to post on your blog so you can respond.)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

And for what it's worth, Ayers has said that the "only sorry I didn't do more" comment was not intended to mean that he wished he'd set more bombs, but that he wished he'd been more successful at convincing people to stop the Vietnam war. Whether he's truthful or not I can't say, but that's what I know of what he said about that comment.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Ayers actually worked very hard not to kill people with his bombs. Randwolf provided a little more information in my last post that touched on Ayers. (http://catsittingstill.livejournal.com/87934.html)

It's a blot on Palin's record that she attracts such crazies and whips them into a homicidal fervor.

It's a blot on Palin's record that when she has done so, she can't be bothered to so much as pause and say "no, we're not going to soil our cause with murder, we're going to vote, and persuade other people to vote."

Even McCain could manage that much. Once he'd been reminded it was necessary.

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

Ayers actually worked very hard not to kill people with his bombs.

What about the shrapnel bomb that was intended for the NCO dance?

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Okay, I had to hunt a bit for that. You're referring to the bombs that the Weather Underground was constructing that caused the accidental Greenwich Village townhouse explosion. Note that Ayers personally does not appear to have been involved; the people building the bomb were Theodore Gold, Diana Oughton, and Terry Robbins; Kathy Boudin and Cathlyn Wilkerson were also in the house at the time, but probably not working on the bombs, as they survived.

Apparently the contention that the bombs were intended for a dance was a speculation years after the fact by a disaffected former member who was not there at the time. Other members speculate the bombs were intended for other places.

There appear to have been deep divisions between Gold and Oughton on the antipersonnel function of the bombs, which leads me to think this was not a common practice in the Weather Underground, but whether it was or wasn't, Ayers doesn't seem to have been part of it.

[lola-mccrary.livejournal.com]

My God, Cat. How dare you do research and post the truth? That is *so* rude of you. If you post the truth how can idio...I mean, unthinking people, blow unimportant issues all out of proportion?

Keep up the great work. And thanks for doing it.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

You had me going for a second there :-)

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

I was going to dig into that--the story sounded too pat, and I couldn't find reliable sourcing on it anywhere--and you beat me to it. Cool!

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Err, it was just thirty seconds of research. But I'm pleased you're pleased.

[maiac.livejournal.com]

I agree that politicians shouldn't pal around with people who commit or support acts of mass destruction.

So what's your opinion of John McCain hiring Williams Timmons to head his presidential transition team? William Timmons worked as a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/mccain-transition-chief-a_n_134595.html). Yes, that Saddam Hussein. No, I'm not making it up. There's a public record -- trial transcript, in fact, since a couple of Timmon's associates were convicted of acting as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein's regime.

By all accounts, Obama didn't pick Ayers' house as the place for Alice Palmer to introduce him as her chosen successor for her state senate seat; Palmer did. Definitely, Obama didn't have anything to do with putting Ayers on the education board. In other words, Obama did not choose to associate with Ayers. By contrast, McCain is most definitely choosing to associate with an ally of Saddam Hussein. Which is worse?

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Err, I set limitations on Jordan a few days ago; he only gets 3 comments per post on my blog. On account of a post I made some time ago that just got completely out of hand in the comments section. So he can't answer you here; you're responding (I think--it's hard to see the alignment when threads get this deep, so forgive me if I'm making an incorrect assumption) to his 3rd comment on this post.

If you feel strongly about it, you can invite him to respond on your lj or to make a post on his lj outlining his thoughts on the matter so you can address them there.

Sorry about the inconvenience.

[howeird]

Whipping up any kind of hatred is wrong. But I don't see Palin doing any whipping. Her supporters include a fair number of people who see nothing wrong with shooting at doctors who perform abortions and survivalists who blow up federal buildings - they whip themselves up.

Palin doesn't seem to do anything to unwhip them, though. McCain does try to douse them a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE
Yeah, he's not very slick about it, but he tries.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I grant you he tried. A little late, but hey, sometimes it takes time to figure out what to do.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Palin: Looking Bad, So McCain Can Look Better.

Though I suspect that some of the "I'm afraid of Obama because he's an Arab" folks at McCain events were planted by the McCain campaign itself. Just so he could look oh-so-civilized, oh-so-respectful, when he gently tells them to calm down and address the issues.

[msminlr.livejournal.com]

As old_fortissimo pointed out when I posted about Islamophobia the other day, McCain's "oh-so-civilized" response distinctly implied that being a "respectable family man" and being an "Arab" were mutually exclusive.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Well, the lady's comment was specifically that she couldn't trust Obama "because he's an Arab".

I'm willing to grant McCain the benefit of the doubt and say he was responding to "Obama isn't trustworth", not "Obama's an Arab".

Or hey, maybe he really did slip and make a racist remark. Some of that is going to be a function of campaign fatigue.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

To be fair, I'm not sure he meant it that way. I'm pretty sure if you asked him, even in private, whether an Arab could be a decent family man he'd say "oh, sure."

But you're right; it does come off sounding that way.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Palin: Looking Bad, So McCain Can Look Better.

Hmm. I do kind of wonder if that's one of Palin's functions.

Of course, in a larger sense, I have read that one of the functions of the Vice-Presidential candidate is to attack the opposing Presidential candidate, so the (same-side) Presidential candidate can appear to be above the fray.

Of course, the McCain campaign doesn't appear to have gotten the memo on that one; I think you're supposed to play it good-cop/bad-cop not bad-cop/worse-cop.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

McCain is just embarrassed because having the fucktards he whipped up threaten violence while the cameras are running is bad public relations.

McCain and the Republican party created a Frankenstein creature to kill liberals, and now they're unhappy because it's doing its thing in public. If they don't want their party brand to be associated with pinatahead toejam cretins, they shouldn't have spent the past two decades tailoring their message to appeal especially to pinatahead toejam cretins.

[lola-mccrary.livejournal.com]

Here! Here! Well said. :-)

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

*throws a toejam football at admnaismith*

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

With someone who probably has a personality disorder like Palin, it's hard to say whether or not she is lying; she may simply believe the best of herself, regardless of facts. Bleh.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Faith-based interpretation of evidence.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I find this blank denial of reality, this "reframing" of "Palin committed a breach of ethics in using a public office to pursue a political vendetta" into "the report exonerates me completely" to be deeply disturbing. Kind of pod-person-like.

[lola-mccrary.livejournal.com]

What does it say about her personal integrity that she would so totally allow her personal response to be framed by McCain's spin machine? I have this vision of an imaginary bedroom conversation:

Sarah: Todd, why the heck did you have to give ALL those details in your deposition?
First Dude: They asked me. Couldn't think of anything else to say.
Sarah: It makes all those people think I did something wrong.
First Dude: Sarah, you DID do something wrong. You just got caught.
Sarah: Yeah...and you helped me get caught! No sex for you tonight.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I hadn't considered that her response might be altered by McCain's spin machine rather than coming straight from the core of her personality. But now you mention it, she was originally going to cooperate with the probe; it was only after she hooked up with McCain that they turned all weird and secretive about it.

[antongarou.livejournal.com]

From the descriptions I hear about her(I'm not American) it might very well be she didn't consider that the probe could harm her until the McCain people explained that "yes, it can".

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Um. That's another possiblity I hadn't considered.

Though actually, in terms of remaining Governor--it *couldn't* have hurt her, at least until the next election. In spite of the fact that she broke the law, it's not an impeachable offense; the matter will be judged, and any punishment applied, by a three-person state board that handles personnel issues--whose jobs are controlled by the Governor.

So how likely do you think it is that this board will vote to sanction the person who can fire them at will--and has shown that she is perfectly willing to fire anyone who crosses her in any way?

Yeah, me too.

I suppose she was counting on that, and counting on Alaska voters not caring, or forgetting about it before the next gubernatorial election. Once it was due to come up right before the national election, it became a bigger problem and she started dragging her feet and refusing subpoenas and whining that it was all a political witch-hunt.

Which ironically gets its traction from the fact that we've seen the Republicans initiate a political witch-hunt against the Clintons, so we know it can happen.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

But see here. It's appalling how easy it is to sell many people on confident lies. And Sarah Palin knows, or at least takes advantage of that.