"Pro-America" America

[catsittingstill]

 Some people love their country as a worshipper loves an idol, believing that its every whim must be honored, that anything it chooses to do is right, no matter how unfair or damaging or downright evil that action might be.  Some of these people believe that anyone who doesn't love their country in this unquestioning way, hates their country.

What these peopole don't understand is that some people, like me, love their country as a parent loves a child, knowing quite well that it can fall into bad company and do evil things.  When we see that happening, of course we criticize the country, as a parent would criticize a child, not out of hatred, but out of love.  It does a child, and a country, no favors at all to tell her  that the rules that apply to others don't apply to her because she's so special and we love her so much.  It does a child, and a country, no favors at all to tell her that it's okay for her to do evil if that's what the other kids, or the other countries are doing.  We expect more from her, because we think she is better than that, because we love her.

When Palin talks about "pro-America" parts of America, she means people who love America with the first kind of love, the spaniel, idol-worshipper kind.  Whether or not we call it out as such, we all know it.

When Michelle Bachman talks about "anti-Americans" in Congress, she means people who love America with the second kind of love, the adult, parental love.  Whether or not we call it out as such, we all know that too.

So I hope those Republicans who understand that we all love America in our separate ways are watching, taking note, and thinking about this.  Because we're going to have to put the country back together after the election.

Just saying..

Comments

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

That's how Palin wants people to love her. Scary.

(The morning sleep-deprived snark. Bah!)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Maybe.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

You're more loving than me. Seems to me, Palin's idea of "pro America" simply means states that intend to vote for her.

I see too much of a third kind of love--loving only selected parts of America as a member of a primitive tribe might love the tribe, primarily expressing that love by badmouthing everyone in a different tribe.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Well, humans in general have a very strong tribe/not-tribe tendency, I have noticed. And that includes a tendency to speak and think ill of people who are not in the tribe as a way of reinforcing tribe solidarity. I think that does complicate this, but I don't think it's the heart of this.

[almeda.livejournal.com]

Some people love their children as the first people you mentioned love America.

Seriously. I have one in my family. :-/

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. And it's (in my opinion) usually a disaster for the child and everyone around her. I just meant as a parent loves a child in general. Usually.

[robin-june.livejournal.com]

"My country, Right or Wrong!
"When right, to be kept right!
"When wrong, to be put right!"

Note: Back when I first ran across that unattributed quote in either "Apples of Gold" or "Wings of Silver," there was no confusion about "right" meaning anything else but "correct."

Someone on my rat community lj pages is running around with a user icon which says "Blind Faith in bad leadership is Not Patriotism!"

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Yes. I hadn't heard either quote before, but they make good sense to me.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

It originated with a toast. ""Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right, and always successful, right or wrong."--Commodore Stephen Decatur *

[ndrosen.livejournal.com]

"My country, Right or Wrong!
"When right, to be kept right!
"When wrong, to be put right!"

IIRC, that was said by Carl Schurz.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyeTuoWCqUE

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

There is a lot of truth in this. For some people, loving and being proud of something means they refuse to see anything wrong with it, and if anyone makes any criticism, they see an attack not just on the thing they love but on themselves. For other people, loving and being proud of something means it's important enough to be willing to work to make it even better by identifying the things that aren't perfect and trying to fix them.

There's a deeper problem, though. All of us who professes to love America actually love our own personal ideals of America. Some of us see an America around us that is close to our personal vision of what it should be, and some of us see a real-world America that has a long way to go but has the potential to get there. But the big divide is in the differences between those ideal visions.

When Sarah Palin talks about "pro America parts of America", implying that other parts are anti-American, she's talking about her own vision of what America is supposed to be. The people who think their vision of America is pretty close to hers cheer, and the people who think her vision is very different and a lot worse than their own.

My own cynicism and anger with politics today are because I see the gap between real-world America and my personal vision growing into a vast impassible gulf. My vision has changed a little since it formed when I was a child, but while it's gotten clearer I don't think it's moved all that much. But how I see the world out there has changed a great deal. A lot of that is because I am less naive and see more of what's really there, but there's a lot that's really changed.

There is a big part of America (real) that is anti-America (my vision). It's the part that approves of Sarah Palin.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

America is diverging farther and farther from my ideal vision too. :-(

[robin-june.livejournal.com]

MIne as well.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

"Let America Be America Again"

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

"'My country, right or wrong,' is something no patriot would dream of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, 'My mother, drunk or sober.'"

G.K. Chesterton

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

:-) Well, I wouldn't disown my mother for getting drunk. But I would definitely be concerned.

[howeird]

Brilliant way of putting it, but I don't buy the citizen-as-parent analogy. I was raised to think of my country the way I think of my parents. My country deserves my love because it protects and defends me. The same way a parent can screw up, so can my government. But it's a heck of a lot more complicated correcting a parent than it is correcting a child.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Ms. Manners was once asked, "Under what circumstances is it acceptable for a child to correct his parent?"

To which she responded:
"The same under which it is acceptable for the parent to correct the child:
If the parent is the child's teacher; if the child is in danger; or if the child just enjoys being corrected."

Exactly how many, and which, of those criteria apply to this election is left as an exercise to the reader.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

:-)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

So by "I don't buy the citizen-as-parent analogy" do you mean

A) You don't love your country as a parent loves a child?

or

B) You don't believe that anybody loves her country as a parent loves a child?

Because I'm perfectly okay with A (well, I'm underenthused about the "love your country like a parent" thing because it tends to come with assumptions that anything the country does is right and you're not capable (and other people are not capable) of judging what your country does--but I can live with it). But I'm much less okay with B.

And sure it is more complicated correcting a country than correcting a child. Correcting a country is like correcting a really rich, powerful child in charge of soldiers and guns and bombs. But that doesn't make it less necessary; it makes it more necessary.

[howeird]

A - I love my country as a child loves a parent. And now that I'm older, as an adult child loves a parent.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I have no problem with that. I hope you can see that some of us love our country differently, and that our criticism doesn't mean that we hate it.

I further hope that when you are among people who love their country like a parent, and who are mistaking those of us who love our country like a child for people who hate their country, that you can bring yourself to help set them straight.

There is room for a lot of opinions, as long as people will leave room for a lot of opinions.

[howeird]

I take it for granted that everyone loves their country. I've lived in three other countries, and spent chunks of time in a few more, and have seen that almost everyone loves their country, they just may not have much love for their government.:-)

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

I thought your posting was very well put, and a good analogy.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Thank you :-)